Open Rose - an Alternative Y-DNA Web Site for Surname ROSE

Diana, Goddess of the Hunt — for Ancestors!

Open Rose: an Alternative Y-DNA Web Site for Surname ROSE

I began a ROSE page on my web site in late December 2008 simply to correct what I felt were some bad connections being made in my ROSE family (I descend from John ROSE of King George Co., VA). The difficulty I had in obtaining enough DNA data with their associated lineages to resolve these connections has led me to believe that other ROSEs must be having the same problems — or would be having them if they were aware of the situation they're in. That web page has now evolved into this web site…

DNA testing has brought genealogy into the realm of science, and secrecy is anathema to progress in science. The best, easiest, and fastest thing you can do to overcome this secrecy roadblock is to upload your results to Ysearch. (For a description of Ysearch and instructions for uploading, please see the Ysearch section below.)

Now that I've resolved the current issues in my own line, I'm making an offer to assist anyone else in making a similar evaluation of their own results, without charge. Unless someone requests such an evaluation, it is not my intention to go any further with resolving ROSE lines, beyond updating the evaluation of my own line when I can. If you would like to see your Group evaluated, please don't just wait for it to appear; it won't unless someone requests it.

I am not the administrator of the Rose Family Association DNA Project, so I do not have access to the ROSE test results in the database at FamilyTreeDNA. If you wish to have your data and lineage displayed and analyzed here, you will have to supply me with the information yourself. I am, however, the admin of six other DNA projects at FTDNA (see navigation bar, below), all of which display all of their data and lineages, so I'm experienced in how and what needs to be done to help you get the most out of your DNA testing dollar. I'm a volunteer and receive no financial remuneration of any kind from FamilyTreeDNA or from my project members. I'm a retired zoologist/paleontologist (with graduate-level education in genetics), and genealogy is my hobby.

2009_HOLIDAY_SEASON_SPECIALS!

FamilyTreeDNA is again offering its annual price discounts for the 2009 holiday season. This is a great time to join and be tested or to give testing as a holiday gift. The prices on these tests have been reduced:

• Y-DNA37 test, regularly $149, is now $119
• Y-DNA67 test, regularly $239, is now $209
• mtDNAPlus (HVR1+HVR2) test, regularly $149, is now $139
• SuperDNA (Y-DNA67 plus mtDNA FGS), regularly $665, is now $488
Plus shipping and handling, which is $4 US and $6 international.
To qualify for the discount, the kit must be ordered and paid for by midnight, 31 Dec 2009.

You can purchase the kit, now, even if you haven't decided yet who will use it. The kits have a virtually unlimited shelf-life (until the samples are actually taken), so you could purchase a kit now and use it later.

If you qualify, these discounts can be used in conjunction
with the subsidies listed below, for an even greater discount!

A critical point:
In most cases, 25 markers is insufficient to adequately support relationships. Twelve markers may be enough to disprove a relationship, but 37 is usually required to confidently assert a connection. The bad connections made in my ROSE family were largely the result of relying on only 25 markers. I have seen a 23/25 match, which indicates a connection is possible, drop to 28/37, which is a resounding non-match. So, beyond uploading to Ysearch, the other best thing you can do for yourself is to upgrade to at least 37 markers, better yet 67.

Upgrading to more markers is especially critical if you are Haplogroup R1b, the most common haplogroup in western Europe. Some 70-80% of males in the British Isles are R1b, making it very easy to get a match merely by coincidence when testing only 12 or 25 markers. If you are getting matches in other surnames, especially if you are getting a lot of them, you need to upgrade. And please do this whether you intend to upload to Ysearch, or not, and whether you intend to seek my help, or not. You need to do it for yourself, so you can trust that the matches you're getting reliably indicate a connection. ROSE is a common surname (it ranked 157th in frequency in the U.S. in the 1990 census) with many origins, so it's possible to get a low-level match with a ROSE and still not be related, at least not within "genealogical time" (15-20 generations) — we're all related if you back far enough.

Another important point:
On the Rose Family Association DNA project web site, there is this statement (as of 24 Jun 2009):

"…of the most common names tested, there are (sic) a high incidence of no meaningful matches because of that commoness. But, in the ROSE project, 86% of the Roses tested have at least one meaningful match. Truly an amazing percentage."

I agree that it's an "amazing" percentage, but I submit that it's so high because the project tends to assert matches that are unwarranted. See, for example, the many cases in Haplogroup R1b where matches asserted by the project are, in my opinion, unsupported.

Based on the most recent issue of the Rose Family Bulletin available to me (Jun 2009), the Rose Project appears to be using percent probabilities to establish relationships, I presume ones generated by the FTDNA TiP calculator. In a quick scan of the data tables in the Bulletin, the makeup of groups appears sound when the percentages are in the realm of 90% or better. When the percent probability drops down into the 70s and lower, there is real concern that the test subject does not belong in that group. If you're one of those testees with a low probability of matching your group, please let me know, and I'll add your group to the web site, along with my evaluation.

As you will find in the discussions on the haplogroup pages linked below, some of the conclusions I've made differ from ones made by the Rose Family Association DNA Project. These differences underscore the need for DNA projects to publicly and completely reveal the data generated by their members' testing. Disclosure of data means members can decide for themselves what the data mean, which I believe they have the right to do — they are, after all, the ones who have paid for this testing. Disclosure of how conclusions were reached means the logic of those conclusions can be examined for flaws, which, by the way, is the main reason scientists publish: to share their work and open it up for criticism and correction. Being corrected is not a bad thing, it's a good thing, because it means we are that much closer to the truth. So, if you feel I've made any errors, I hope you will contact me so we can discuss them.

Advancing our genealogy via Y-DNA testing in surname projects is not meant to be a contest of wills, an ego trip, a turf war, or a cash cow for its administrator. It is a quest for knowledge, and the more we share our knowledge, the faster and further we will advance.

Links to Results, Lineages, and Analyses by Haplogroup

I2a

R1a

R1b

Ysearch

Ysearch is a public database sponsored by FamilyTreeDNA allowing people tested with them and with any other testing company to easily share and compare their Y-DNA test results. Uploading your results to Ysearch does not necessarily involve revealing your identity, not unless you choose to reveal it. I personally see no hazard in revealing one's identity (e.g., see my mtDNA results), but I respect the desire some have to remain anonymous, and Ysearch allows you to do so simply by putting "Name Withheld" (or whatever) in the Contact field. Whether you give your real name or not, people who contact you do so through a form, one that does not reveal your email address.

If you were tested at FTDNA, to avoid possible keyboarding errors in transferring your data, please do not do the upload manually, but instead do it using the "upload to Ysearch" link on the "Y-DNA Matches" tab of your member page at FTDNA. It's a few simple clicks to create your Ysearch account and upload your results, error free.

Without a lineage, DNA test results are just meaningless numbers; so, in addition to uploading your data to Ysearch, please also upload a GEDCOM. (I recommend uploading one to your FTDNA member page, too.) There is no need to upload your entire data file, just extract a small file from your database containing the patrilineal line from the test subject to his earliest known ROSE ancestor, privatizing living persons (but do leave them in the line, so we have an accurate count of the number of generations between the ancestor and the test subject). What you want to supply is enough information to associate your test results with the correct ROSE line. If you don't upload a GEDCOM, then please at least put your lineage in the Notes field of your Ysearch account. For example, my line would be: John > Bennett > Abner > Bennett > William Jefferson > William Lee > Anna California (ROSE) MATTHIESEN, where I daughter out.

Subsidized Testing!

If you want to increase the probability of making a match, please offer to subsidize a test, even if it's just to split the cost. If you have a line you want tested, please consider offering a subsidy to encourage a volunteer.

I am was offering to fully pay the cost of a 67-marker test of a patrilineal descendant of Bennett ROSE (1731/2-c1788) of King George's Co., VA, and Surry Co., NC
Success! A (formerly unknown) cousin has accepted my offer and is being tested.
Do consider making such an offer, so you can get your line tested, too.

For any subsidy, acceptance of the subject is at the discretion of the donor (i.e., upon the researcher's satisfaction that there is a valid paper connection between the test subject and the ancestor) and the test subject must agree to sign the Release to allow sharing of his test results. Please note that sharing of results does not necessarily mean sharing of identity. Only the donor, the project administration, FamilyTreeDNA, and matching test subjects need know the identity of the test subject.

Sending Information
You can send me material either as attachments to emails or as uploads to my FTP site
(your web browser should be capable of doing an FTP upload): ftp://ftp.dgmweb.net/incoming/
If you do upload something, please let me know you have done so
because the server does not email me any alerts when something is uploaded

External Links to ROSE Genealogy Web Sites
(If you would like your site listed, please contact me.)

Rose Family Association DNA Project

ROSS Family DNA Project

George ROSE's Genealogy Web Site

Bill ROSE's WorldConnect File: The ROSEs of Kilravock…

Brewer Descendants of Johannes (Jan) BROUWER
(an adopted line surnamed ROSE, but genetically BREWER)

Relevant Mailing Lists